No Signs, No Prophet, How Long?


There are no signs for us to see. There is no longer a prophet. And none of us knows how long this will last.
-Psalm 74:9

Receiving signs from God; and having prophets among us is the normal for authentic believers.

Signs from God are like signatures that God places here.  People recognize them and look to God.

No signs means there is nothing pointing to God.

Can you have a people of God without any signs from God?

Having no signs from God is a cause for lament and alarm.

Some people believe that it is normal to not have signs at this time, but not the author of this psalm.

We can take up the lament, the alarm, and the same prayer as him and say, “Why, God?”, and state the truth that we see no signs.

The psalmist also says, “There is no longer a prophet”.  In other words, there were prophets in the past and now we don’t have them.

Signs and prophets go together.  Prophets bear a message from God, to people.

All preachers or teachers are not prophets or prophetic, meaning that they are sharing what God wants said now.  The psalmist is saying, we are missing these guys right now.

Where are they?

I grew up being taught that prophecy was about the end times.  This is not the prophetic ministry that psalm 74 is referring to.

“And none of us knows how long it will last”.

We have no signs to see and we don’t have prophets (so), we don’t know how long this will last.
What will last?  This time we are in, now.

These instruct and advise us on times and seasons.

We no longer see your miraculous signs. All the prophets are gone, and no one can tell us when it will end.
-Psalm 74:9

Titles for Psalm 74:

When The Roof Falls In -Don Williams (TCC)
Arise O God, Defend You Cause (ESV)
Intercession For Restoration of Zion (TLV)
An Appeal against the Devastation of the Land by the Enemy (AMP, NASB)
Prayer for Israel (CSB)
A Prayer for the Nation in Times of Trouble (CEV)
We Need You Now (TPT)
A Plea for Deliverance (ISV)
Plea for Help in Time of National Humiliation (NRSV)
A Plea for Relief from Oppressors (NKJV)

My favorite:

The Wail and Prayer of a True Patriot (Homilist)

Spurgeon wrote,

“The history of the suffering church is always edifying; when we see how the faithful trusted and wrestled with their God in times of dire distress, we are thereby taught how to behave ourselves under similar circumstances we learn moreover, that when the fiery trial befalls us, no strange thing has happened unto us, we are following the trail of the host of God.”

There are no signs for us to see. -Psalm 74:9a

I. Signs- that is, tokens and marks of God’s special favor to the soul.
II. There is also “a seeing those signs, when God, the Holy Ghost, is pleased to shine upon them.”
III. There is a third state, where there is not seeing the signs, those signs being enveloped in darkness, dimness, and obscurity.
“Signs of God’s favor, marks and testimonies of the work of grace upon their souls, are often so out of sight, so buried in obscurity, so enveloped in clouds of darkness, that the living family are compelled, from soul-feeling, to take up the language of lamentation here expressed, and say, “We see not our signs.”
– J. C. Philpot. 1802-1869

The ordinary “signs” of Israel being God’s peculiar people are the passover (Exodus 12:13), the Sabbath (Exodus 31:13), the temple, the altar, the sacrifices; the extraordinary ones are God’s miracles wrought in his people’s behalf (Psalm 78:43).
– A. R. Fausset.

Spurgeon:

“There is no more any prophet.” Prophecy was suspended. No inspiring psalm or consoling promise fell from bard or seer. It is ill with the people of God when the voice of the preacher of the gospel fails, and a famine of the word of life falls on the people.  God-sent ministers are as needful to the saints as their daily bread, and it is a great sorrow when a congregation is destitute of a faithful pastor.

It is to be feared, that with all the ministers now existing, there is yet a dearth of men whose hearts and tongues are touched with the celestial fire.  “Neither is there any among us that knoweth how long.” If someone could foretell an end, the evil might be borne with a degree of patience, but when none can see a termination, or foretell an escape, the misery has a hopeless appearance, and is overwhelming.  Blessed be God, he has not left his church in these days to be so deplorably destitute of cheering words; let us pray that he never may contempt of the word is very common, and may well provoke the Lord to withdraw it from us; may his long-suffering endure the strain, and his mercy afford us still the word of life.

There is no longer a prophet -Psalm 74:9b

Don Williams:

“Since in the biblical world-view the prophet gives God’s will for both the present (“forthtell”) and the future (“foretell”), the absence of a prophet means that no one knows the time or length of the adversary’s “reproach” (“taunt”) and blasphemy. No wonder, when God’s salvation is given in Christ, as the messianic age breaks in, the gift of the living voice of prophecy is restored (see Acts 21:10-11; 1 Cor. 14:1)

These living words continue to be a part of the Holy Spirit’s gifts to us as the church is being renewed today…. That our God still speaks today is an essential sign that He is the living God in our midst.” 

Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and especially that you may prophesy.
-1 Corinthians 14:1

There are no signs for us to see.
There is no longer a prophet.
And none of us knows how long this will last.
-Psalm 74:9

Not seeing signs, nor having prophecies, or knowing our personal and corporate destinies is a leveled judgement from God to be lamented.

This is sobering.

What if we have been living in a dream world, where religion has taken over authentic spirituality?
What if the truth is that we have taken glory in our spiritual blindness and deafness, because we are modern?

We’ve been taught, “We have the Bible, so we don’t need God’s special message through a person.” Irony is that the Bible contradicts this.

Pagans are “spiritual, but not religious”, and many Christians are “religious, but not spiritual”.

To believe it is normal to not to have signs from God is a travesty.
To not know about and believe is the NT gift of prophetic words is tragic.
To not have this guidance is like flying without key instruments, like a road with no signs, driving without a map, GPS, or a phone.

We are rockets, who have guidance systems that come on after they launch.

We often get what we ask for.
We ask for a God who does not send signs, doesn’t speak, or have prophets and that’s what we get.
It does not mean it’s true or reality.

We see no signs, there is no prophet any more; none of us knows how long it will last.
-Psalm 74:9
Christianity is not non-prophet.

It is a mistake to confuse Prophets with prophets.

Bad conflation.

Genuine small p prophets don’t write the Bible nor contradict the scriptures.

There have been false prophets as long as there have been real ones.

Because of the false, we should not reject the genuine.
False religions and false teachers abound in the world.

How do you tell the difference?

By studying and immersing yourself in the genuine.
Knowing God and His word is the antidote for deception.
Do you say Jesus is Lord, and the only way?
Are we saved by what we do or by what Jesus did?
Know the real and you will recognize the fakes.

Christians need to welcome prophets and learn to discern.

John calls it testing the spirits.
(1 John 4)

There are times when God is not speaking, or we can’t hear, don’t hear.

Are we going to do something about it, or just keep going and even trust a theological doctrine that says God doesn’t speak anymore; that the entirety of the Bible contradicts?
What’s God’s silence saying?
There are no signs for us to see. There is no longer a prophet. And none of us knows how long this will last.
-Psalm 74:9
What did this saying mean for ancient Israel and how did it apply? And what does it mean for us and how does it apply to us today?

What were or are the signs?

Miraculous wonders?
Emblems of national pride?
The experience of success or victories?
The context might help.
Psalm 74 was written in a time of national defeat and humiliation, when Israel had been invaded and plundered.
The signs disappeared.
Maybe it was all of the above.
All the peculiar signs of God’s people became covered up, not be be seen.
There is a negative demand for signs that is a marker of unbelief (Matt. 16:1-4, Mk. 8:11, Jn. 2:18, 1 Cor. 1:22).
Jesus did not like the religious leaders demanding a sign, and pointed out their corrupt hearts.
An evil and adulterous generation demands a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” Then he left them and went away.
-Matt. 16:4

When the psalmist writes, “we see no signs”, we can assume he has a good heart, but he is writing on behalf of his people. In one sense he is just reporting and in another sense we have to ask what the signs meant to a people who could no longer see them.

Max Weber coined the term, “routinization of charisma”.

The trap is that ordination becomes an office rather than charismatic essence.
Genuine leadership, connected to God, becomes replaced by officials who are not genuine, but at best are “fake it till you make it”.

“We see no signs”, could be a national cry or mourning that misunderstood what the signs were for.
Israel was meant to be the mission base to evangelize the whole world.

The reason for the greatness of Israel was to be a light for God.

And the reason that God wants to make the church great is also for the world. But we greatly misunderstand when we think that the riches God gives us are for us to spend on ourselves. God makes us rich so that we can be generous, and show off what God is like.

We have no prophets.

The authentic church that Jesus is building, that he is coming back for is built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets (Ephesians 2:20).

The people of God have lost their signs (banners of identity and miraculous signs) and we don’t have prophets- people who speak in his name, who can tell us how long this season of devastation will last. Miracles, prophets, and finding identity are our losses.

We see no signs, there is no prophet any more; none of us knows how long it will last.

-Psalm 74:9
The church has been without seers or prophets and those who can tell times.

It is humble and wise to recognize this and ask for God to bring these gifts back. Encouragement needed.

There are no signs for us to see.
There is no longer a prophet.
And none of us knows how long this will last.
-Psalm 74:9
God’s people need to regain their inheritance as sign seers.

Signs are there, but we don’t see them.

Voices that hear and tell times and seasons are quiet now.

 

Bonhoeffer, Kristalnacht, and Psalm 74:8

They said to themselves, “We will utterly subdue them”; they burned all the meeting places of God in the land.
-Psalm 74:8

The only time Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote a date into his Bible, was here in Psalm 74, which was the day the Nazi’s started burning synagogues. Nov 9, 1938

David A. R. Clark (DC):

The Sunday following Kristallnacht, Bonhoeffer had no pulpit from which to preach a sermon. He made no public comment.
He wrote a letter on Nov. 20th, in which he said, “In the last few days, I have thought much about Ps 74, Zech 2:8, Rom 9:4-5, +11:11-15.

DC:

…That leads me deeply into prayer.”

In 1935, Bonhoeffer delivered a lecture, “Christ in the Psalms”. He considered the tension that a psalm is both the divine word of God and a human prayer to God.

DC:

“How can the prayerful word of the church-community simultaneously also be God’s word?”, he asked.
“God as the one praying and God as the one answering the prayer, is only resolved in Jesus Christ.”


“Christ is the supplicant in the Psalter.”

Steve and Walt Westerholm:

What matters to him the most is that Christ is to be heard in every psalm.

“The whole Psalter can be understood as the prayer of Jesus Christ.”

DC:

The frame of reference for interpreting the Psalms becomes Christ himself, since “what becomes important now is that we understand and pray together these psalms as the prayers of Jesus Christ in his church-community.” -Bonhoeffer


Life Together ’38
Psalms: The Prayerbook of the Bible ’40

DC:

Bonhoeffer did not claim merely that certain psalms prefigure Christ or find their full meaning in Christ, but instead made the more radical claim that all psalms must be interpreted as the very prayers of Christ.

DC:

And more importantly for the purpose of analyzing his Kristallnacht annotation, Bonhoeffer emphasized the need to hear the suffering Christ as the voice speaking in the psalms of suffering, revealing Christ’s presence amid contemporary suffering, lamentation and abandonment.

Patrick D. Miller, Bonhoeffer and the Psalms:

“There came to [Bonhoeffer] this shattering awareness of the loneliness of the despairing Jews in the pogrom over 2000 years before when the Babylonians destroyed the temple and deported the people”,

PM:

“the burden of a solidarity he felt with the despairing cries of the Jews on that Crystal Night of the later pogrom.”

Barry Harvey, Taking Hold of the Real: Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the Profound Worldliness of Christianity:

“Bonhoeffer uses figural exegesis to posit a real connection grounded in the revelatory activity of God in Christ btween the people and events narrated in the Old Testament..

BH:

…and those in the Germany of his day. Through these interpretations he endeavors to show the way that these people and events, separated in time and space, nonetheless belong together as two aspects of a single economy or pattern orchestrated around the one…

BH:

…divine utterance made in Christ. Though events never repeat themselves identically, there is the contention that a nonidentical repetition is at work in God’s redemptive activity in the world, a repetition articulated through typological interpretation.”

Quoting Jeremy Worthen, Praying the Psalms
DC:

“When Bonhoeffer reads Psalm 74 in the context of Kristillnacht, the subject of the psalm is not merely ‘some ancient Israelites’, but indeed, ‘might be extended to include the Jewish people’, of 1938.”

Image

Why have you rejected us forever, God? Why does your anger burn against the sheep of your pasture? Psalm 74:1 (Williams notes)

Why have you rejected us forever, God?
Why does your anger burn against the sheep of your pasture?
-Psalm 74:1

Notes from Don Williams:

-There is a moral order after all,
-And God is to be known in judgement as well as redemption.
-This means that life is no neutral zone where the will of God inoperative.
-Rather, life is a battle zone where the will of God and the will of human beings (and the devil himself) are in continual conflict.
-Thus Israel experiences not God’s indifference or her own ambiguity,
-But she feels God’s judgement when the roof falls in.
-As Augustine puts it, if we reject God’s mercy we are only left with His wrath.
-Commentators identify this psalm as a corporate lament.
-When the roof falls in upon us, we are not to despair and indulge in the nihilism of the age.
-Rather, we are to pray.
-In Jesus we know that beyond God’s judgement is His grace.
-Here is our covenant, sealed in the Savior’s blood.
-And as God restores His church we too will praise Him.

Don Williams, TCC, 1989, Psalms 73-150.

Why God?, Honesty, Anger, and Lament: Psalm 74:1


A Maskil of Asaph.
God, why have you abandoned us forever?
Why does your anger smolder at the sheep of your own pasture?
-Psalm 74:1

I learned and taught not to ask God why.  But here it is in scripture.  We have permission to ask why.  But we don’t have a license to judge God. 

The negative on the why question is that God won’t usually answer that, but what he wants to do is to reveal himself to us (his character) in our situation.  It is natural to cry out, “Why?”, when a bad thing happens; and that is what we have here in Psalm 74.

A Maskil of Asaph.
Why have you rejected us forever, God?
Why does your anger burn against the sheep of your pasture?
-Psalm 74:1

Psalm 74 is a brutally honest prayer, by someone who believes in God’s power to restore, and is a true patriot; but is honest to God about the bad way it is, right now.

(I wrote about Asaph, and an introduction to Psalm 74, in my post, Psalm 74:8)

Why have you rejected us forever, God?

Why does your anger burn against the sheep of your pasture?
-Psalm 74:1

Notes from Don Williams:

There is a moral order after all, and God is to be known in judgement as well as redemption.  This means that life is no neutral zone where the will of God is inoperative.  Rather, life is a battle zone where the will of God and the will of human beings (and the devil himself) are in continual conflict.  Thus Israel experiences not God’s indifference or her own ambiguity, but she feels God’s judgement when the roof falls in.  As Augustine puts it, if we reject God’s mercy we are only left with His wrath.

Commentators identify this psalm as a corporate lament.  When the roof falls in upon us, we are not to despair and indulge in the nihilism of the age.  Rather, we are to pray.  In Jesus we know that beyond God’s judgement is His grace.  Here is our covenant, sealed in the Savior’s blood.  And as God restores His church we too will praise Him.

(Don Williams, The Communicators Commentary, 1989, Psalms 73-150. )

Why is this verse and this whole psalm and many others like it, in the Bible?  Is God a rejecting God and does God get angry with his people?

Is Jesus different than the Father, or the Holy Spirit?  Is God the Father prone to grouchiness?  Are pictures, projected images of God, that aren’t exactly accurate; allowed to be part of inspired scripture?  Is God so secure with himself that he permits us to misunderstand who he is?

Does God love us so much that he cares more about our being honest than being correct?  Isn’t religion about being righteous, “right-ness”?  Self-righteousness is the antithesis of a loving relationship with God.
God wants us to come as we are and let him make us righteous.  Becoming devoted.

God’s religion for us is devotion to Him, with a growing spirituality, where we are being transformed by Him, in an ongoing relationship.  In this, we are friends and lovers of God.  Friends and true loves are honest with one another.  This is what God has always had for us.

We want to be honest to God, because honesty is the basis for an intimate relationship.  God already knows how we hurt and what we feel.  When we tell Him it helps us and gives Him pleasure.  Friends and lovers tell each other what is bothering them.  It’s odd not to share problems.  All that is to say that we can tell God how it is, straight up.
Examples:

“Why have you rejected us?”

“I am depressed!”

“I want to be married!”

“I lost my job!”

“I have no church!”

“I can’t find a good church!”

“I am sick!”

“We are divided!”

“My calling was aborted!”

“People hate me!”

A Maskil of Asaph.
Why have you rejected us forever, God? 

Why does your anger burn against the sheep of your pasture?
-Psalm 74:1

Are you still mad at us and are we still in a time-out?  There is a way to say this, to God, that is not blasphemous, that does not take God’s name in vain.

There are things we can not know or can not understand. But we can always ask. We are allowed to be disappointed and even angry. We just can’t judge God.

Questioning and being very upset are what you do with someone you love and you know loves you.
It would be odd not to.

“Johnny Get Angry”, is a song that conveys how anger is a form of true love. Passivity and indifference are not love. We sometimes have sharp words and argue with those we love. The couple who never fight may not have a very passionate marriage.

God’s anger at his kids is not abusive or hateful.

“Esau I hated”, means, “that guy did something very distasteful to me.”  It’s like hating brussel sprouts or hating hypocrisy.  It is normal to be angry with someone you love.  God is that way and he made us to be lovingly angry too.

If God is angry with us, it is based on his love, his care.  And we want to know why, because we love him.  

To not ever become angry with someone either means you don’t care or there’s really no depth to the relationship.  We get angry about things relating to the ones we care about

Christian couples may delude themselves that fighting looks bad (is unspiritual), so we don’t.   What’s the result?

But God does get angry at us and he models us getting angry at one another.  There is healthy anger (good and godly), and unhealthy (destructive and sinful) anger.  It is written, “Be angry and sin not”.  But, we live in an angry society and it’s the destructive kind called rage.

Learning how to be angry is part of learning how to love.  I remember a lady who said she was, “going to get up in God’s face”, and tell him how upset she was.  Some people were taken aback by this statement, but she was expressing healthy anger towards someone she loves deeply.

God is love.  But God also gets angry.  If we think God is angry, we might want to ask him about it.  Are you angry and if so, why?  “Those whom I love, I rebuke”.  The rainbow is a symbol of???  (Genesis 9)

There is a proverb that says, “Better is open rebuke than hidden love”.  This is wisdom from God and how God wants us to function with one another and towards him.  Flattery is a great sin.  Real worship is not flattery, but raw, honesty.  The highest form of worship is lament.

We ought to tell God the truth.  We can’t get healed or get a plan on what to do next, if we do not start with honesty.  God is not a person who has, “things he doesn’t want to hear”.  He actually wants to hear you tell him the things you are afraid to say, that are offensive to you.

A Maskil of Asaph.
Why have you rejected us forever, God? 
Why does your anger burn against the sheep of your pasture?
-Psalm 74:1

This is an honest prayer.  We know that God does not reject his people forever, here on earth, in history.
But the psalmist felt this way and said it, wrote it, probably set it to music and invited others to sing a sad song.

___________________________
Here’s a link to article for the image just above:

Psalm 74:8

They said in their hearts,
“Let us oppress them relentlessly.”
They burned every place throughout the land
where God met with us.
-Psalm 74:8
Titles for Psalm 74

Prayer for Israel
A Plea for Relief from Oppressors
We Need You Now
Plea for Help in Time of National Humiliation
A Prayer for National Deliverance
Arise, O God, Defend Your Cause
A Prayer for the Nation in Times of Trouble
A Nation in Trouble Prays
Psalm 74 is a Maskil of Asaph.

The word is derived from a verb meaning “to be prudent; to be wise.” Various options are: “a contemplative song,” “a song imparting moral wisdom,” or “a skillful [i.e., well-written] song.”
Pss 32, 42, 44, 45, 47:7, 52-55, 74, 78, 88, 89, and 142.
Richard Thompson

Who was Asaph?
Asaph was a young priest from the tribe of Levi, when David brought the Ark of the Covenant up to Jerusalem in about 1000 to 995 BC. His father, Berekiah was appointed Doorkeeper of the Ark.
RT
Asaph was so talented that David put him in charge of the music before the Ark of the Covenant. He was assisted there by his brother Zechariah. He was probably in his twenties at the time.

Asaph was in charge of the music in Jerusalem where the Ark and the King were.
RT
We know that Asaph kept that position at least until the dedication of the Temple in Jerusalem almost forty years later. At that time the worship services of the Tent of Meeting and the Tabernacle were consolidated in the Temple.
RT
Asaph served in Jerusalem for all of David’s reign, and no doubt set to music, many of the Psalms that God gave David.

He saw the death of David, the accession of Solomon, and the building of the Temple. He thought he was standing on the verge of Israel’s Millenium.
RT
After Solomon’s dedication of the Temple, Asaph saw Israel’s “golden age” turn into something quite apart from what he expected.

Asaph saw Solomon become a wicked man who entrusted the administration of his Kingdom to other wicked men.
RT
After Solomon’s death,… …the Egyptians invaded, along with Israel’s neighbors, took Jerusalem, burned and stripped the Temple, killed many of the priests, and left, mocking Israel, and Israel’s God.
RT
In the winter of his years Asaph surveyed the wreckage of his hopes. The Kingdom was destroyed, the Temple was in ruins, many of his own family had been killed.

If there was ever a man who had an excuse for being disillusioned, Asaph was that man.
RT
Yet, through it all, Asaph finds God’s faithfulness a strong tower of hope.

Psalms 74 and 79 reflect Asaph’s distress at the invasion of Shishak the king of Egypt. Asaph was an old man of at least a hundred years old when he wrote many of his Psalms.
They said to themselves, “We will utterly subdue them”; they burned all the meeting places of God in the land.
-Psalm 74:8

The only time Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote a date into his Bible, was here in Psalm 74, which was the day the Nazi’s started burning synagogues. Nov 9, 1938
David A. R. Clark (DC)
The Sunday following Kristallnacht, Bonhoeffer had no pulpit from which to preach a sermon. He made no public comment.
He wrote a letter on Nov. 20th, in which he said, “In the last few days, I have thought much about Ps 74, Zech 2:8, Rom 9:4-5, +11:11-15.
DC
…That leads me deeply into prayer.”

In 1935, Bonhoeffer delivered a lecture, “Christ in the Psalms”. He considered the tension that a psalm is both the divine word of God and a human prayer to God.
DC
“How can the prayerful word of the church-community simultaneously also be God’s word?”, he asked.
“God as the one praying and God as the one answering the prayer, is only resolved in Jesus Christ.”

“Christ is the supplicant in the Psalter.”
DC
Steve and Walt Westerholm:
What matters to him the most is that Christ is to be heard in every psalm.
“The whole Psalter can be understood as the prayer of Jesus Christ.”
DC
The frame of reference for interpreting the Psalms becomes Christ himself, since “what becomes important now is that we understand and pray together these psalms as the prayers of Jesus Christ in his church-community.” -Bonhoeffer

Life Together ’38
Prayerbook of the Bible ’40
DC
Bonhoeffer did not claim merely that certain psalms prefigure Christ or find their full meaning in Christ, but instead made the more radical claim that all psalms must be interpreted as the very prayers of Christ.
DC
And more importantly for the purpose of analyzing his Kristallnacht annotation, Bonhoeffer emphasized the need to hear the suffering Christ as the voice speaking in the psalms of suffering, revealing Christ’s presence amid contemporary suffering, lamentation and abandonment.
Patrick D. Miller, Bonhoeffer and the Psalms

“There came to [Bonhoeffer] this shattering awareness of the loneliness of the despairing Jews in the pogrom over 2000 years before when the Babylonians destroyed the temple and deported the people”,
PM
“the burden of a solidarity he felt with the despairing cries of the Jews on that Crystal Night of the later pogrom.”
Barry Harvey, Taking Hold of the Real: Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the Profound Worldliness of Christianity

“Bonhoeffer uses figural exegesis to posit a real connection grounded in the revelatory activity of God in Christ btween the people and events narrated in the Old Testament..
BH
…and those in the Germany of his day. Through these interpretations he endeavors to show the way that these people and events, separated in time and space, nonetheless belong together as two aspects of a single economy or pattern orchestrated around the one
BH
…divine utterance made in Christ. Though events never repeat themselves identically, there is the contention that a nonidentical repetition is at work in God’s redemptive activity in the world, a repetition articulated through typological interpretation.”
Quoting Jeremy Worthen, Praying the Psalms
DC:

“When Bonhoeffer reads Psalm 74 in the context of Kristillnacht, the subject of the psalm is not merely ‘some ancient Israelites’, but indeed, ‘might be extended to include the Jewish people’, of 1938.”
Image
I created this post from my Twitter thread using Spooler

Blog at WordPress.com.

Up ↑